{"id":67695,"date":"2024-08-04T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-08-04T09:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/b558c595-5024-4bbf-8b65-4730c6b1612e"},"modified":"2024-08-04T11:25:26","modified_gmt":"2024-08-04T09:25:26","slug":"simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts","status":"publish","type":"rss_feed","link":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/rss_feed\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts\/","title":{"rendered":"Simon says: SRAM Thread Mount is a step forward, but what was wrong with chainring bolts?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p class=\"rssexcerpt\">Not everything on bikes is ripe for innovation <\/p><p class=\"rssauthor\">By Simon von Bromley\n      <\/p><p class=\"rssbyline\">Published: Sunday, 04 August 2024 at 09:00 AM<\/p><hr class=\"no-tts wp-block-separator\"\/><?xml version=\"1.0\" encoding=\"UTF-8\" standalone=\"yes\"?>\n<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><p>With the launch of its new Red XPLR AXS gravel groupset, SRAM has finally brought its Thread Mount chainring design to a non-MTB power meter spider.<\/p><p>In theory, this solves one of my biggest peeves about SRAM\u2019s recent <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/advice\/buyers-guides\/best-power-meters\">power meter<\/a> spider designs \u2013 namely that, on its <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-road\/sram-red-axs-review\">Red AXS<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/sram-force-axs-2023-review\">Force AXS<\/a> power meters, the chainrings are integrated into the spider with no way to remove them.<\/p><p>Thanks to Thread Mount, though, chainrings can simply be screwed off and on the new <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/news\/sram-aims-to-set-the-gravel-standard-with-red-axs-xplr\">Red XPLR AXS<\/a> power meter.<\/p><p>Yet, while I\u2019m glad SRAM has adopted this design with its latest <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/advice\/buyers-guides\/gravel-bike-groupsets\">gravel groupset<\/a>, let\u2019s not break out the champagne and declare this issue a thing of the past.<\/p><p>I also bristle at the idea of a brand taking something away from riders, only to add it back in later as a \u2018feature\u2019 \u2013 especially when the \u2018new\u2019 system is less functional than the one we already had.<\/p><h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-integrated-chainrings-were-never-worth-it\">Integrated chainrings were never worth it<\/h2><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">SRAM&#8217;s previous Red eTap AXS groupset debuted its integrated chainring design. &#8211; Simon von Bromley \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>SRAM\u2019s spider-based power meters enjoy a well-earned reputation for accuracy and reliability.<\/p><p>It has always felt a shame, therefore, that the high-end Red AXS and Force AXS power meters featured such an annoying flaw.<\/p><p>SRAM\u2019s argument for integrating the chainrings directly into the power meter spiders was that it made for a stiffer system (which improves front shifting) and lower weight.<\/p><p>Taken on their own merits, both of these things are true \u2013 chainring stiffness plays a role in front shifting performance, and getting rid of the bolts and threaded inserts will save some weight.<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1067\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/01\/SRAM-Force-AXS-weight.jpg\" alt=\"Shimano Ultegra Di2 R8100 and SRAM Force AXS groupsets go head to head\" class=\"wp-image-813020\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The design has since trickled down to Force AXS, to my dismay. &#8211; Liam Cahill \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>The problem, however, is the performance gains are intangibly small compared to what you lose \u2013 namely, the ability to replace chainrings, either for wear-related reasons or because you want to change your gear ratios.<\/p><p>Other brands have also shown it\u2019s possible to create stiff chainrings and have excellent front shifting without needing to resort to impractical integrated designs.<\/p><p>I distinctly remember the first time I tried a Shimano HollowGlide outer chainring (on an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-road\/shimano-ultegra-6700-groupset-review\">Ultegra 6700 groupset<\/a>), for example, and the improvement compared to traditional chainrings.<\/p><p>Shimano cranksets all use bolt-on chainrings, though, and don\u2019t seem to suffer any reduction in front shifting speed or accuracy as a result. In fact, many \u2013 myself included \u2013 regard Shimano\u2019s front shifting performance as class-leading.<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1662\" height=\"1108\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/08\/20210907_SB_5DMKII_MG_8242-c76df08-edited.jpg\" alt=\"Quarq power meter on a Giant TCR road bike\" class=\"wp-image-875443\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">SRAM&#8217;s Quarq DFour power meter doesn&#8217;t suffer from poor front shifting when paired with good chainrings. &#8211; Simon von Bromley \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>To further prove the point, front shifting with a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/training\/power-meters\/quarq-dfour-dub-power-meter-review\">Quarq DFour DUB power meter<\/a> (which is effectively the same as SRAM\u2019s Red \/ Force AXS power meters but with a spider design that blends with interchangeable <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-road\/shimano-dura-ace-r9100-review\">Shimano Dura-Ace R9100<\/a> chainrings) is also fantastic.<\/p><p>The argument that it makes the system lighter also feels like a stretch.<\/p><p>It&#8217;s true that no bolts is lighter than four bolts, but the difference is miniscule \u2013 a set of four Shimano T30 chainring bolts weighs only 4.5g.<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/08\/20240731_SvB_X-E3_DSF5788-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Shimano T30 crank bolts on scales\" class=\"wp-image-875433\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chainring bolts weigh next to nothing. &#8211; Simon von Bromley \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>There are the threaded inserts on the outer chainring to consider too, but even so, we\u2019re only talking about a few grams at worst.<\/p><p>Perhaps weight weenies will disagree, but unless you\u2019re building a bike to win the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/features\/tech\/2023-hill-climb-tech-trends\">UK national hill climb championships<\/a>, I think every bike can afford an additional 10-20g to accommodate interchangeable chainrings.<\/p><h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-thread-mount-is-better-but-it-s-not-the-best-of-both-worlds\">Thread Mount is better, but it\u2019s not the best of both worlds<\/h2><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1800\" height=\"1200\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/07\/SRAM-Red-AXS-XPLR-10.jpeg\" alt=\"SRAM Red AXS XPLR groupset\" class=\"wp-image-874835\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">I&#8217;d rather have Thread Mount than integrated chainrings, but it&#8217;s still not ideal. &#8211; Russell Burton \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>With Thread Mount, SRAM effectively says riders get the best of both worlds \u2013 the lower weight of ditching bolts, plus the ability to change chainrings.<\/p><p>On paper, it looks as if it solves the problem, but in reality, its proprietary nature introduces another set of issues.<\/p><p>For a start, you\u2019ll need SRAM\u2019s proprietary tool (the SRAM Thread Mount Chainring Removal Tool) to remove and install a chainring, which costs \u00a363 \/ $65 \/ \u20ac70 and can only be used for this one job.<\/p><p>That\u2019s fine if you\u2019re a tool fetishist like <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/author\/oscar-huckle\">Oscar Huckle<\/a>, but it can also just feel as though riders are being squeezed for yet more of their hard-earned cash.<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1067\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/07\/Sram-xplr-chainring-tool.jpeg\" alt=\"chainring tool separates the thread mount rings from the power meter\" class=\"wp-image-874681\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">SRAM&#8217;s threaded chainring tool is clever, but it&#8217;s solving a problem SRAM created. &#8211; Warren Rossiter \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>Perhaps most obviously, though, while you can change chainrings, you\u2019re stuck with only using SRAM\u2019s own Thread Mount options.<\/p><p>For SRAM Red XPLR AXS, that means only five 1x chainring options from 38 to 46t (in 2t increments), with no third-party or 2x options as things stand.<\/p><p>While this likely won\u2019t trouble many owners of the new 13-speed groupset, it means the new Red XPLR AXS power meter can\u2019t be adapted easily for use on a road or time trial bike, or repurposed to work with a non-SRAM groupset, for example.<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1800\" height=\"1200\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/07\/SRAM-Red-AXS-XPLR-12.jpeg\" alt=\"SRAM Red AXS XPLR groupset\" class=\"wp-image-874837\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">As things stand, SRAM only offers 1x Thread Mount chainrings for gravel and mountain bikes. &#8211; Russell Burton \/ Our Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>Of course, there\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/features\/opinion\/the-perfect-power-meter-doesnt-exist\">no perfect power meter<\/a> that can be used on all bikes and for all disciplines, but in this case the limitation isn\u2019t inherent to power meter spiders in general \u2013 it\u2019s something SRAM has designed in by choice.<\/p><p>As with the tool, I can see the potential benefits to SRAM here (it might sell more power meters if you need to buy a specific one for every type of bike you own) but the benefits for riders aren\u2019t so obvious.<\/p><h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts\">What was wrong with chainring bolts?<\/h2><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1200\" height=\"799\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/08\/20170116-SRAM-Red-eTap-power-meter-crankset.jpg\" alt=\"SRAM Red eTap power meter crankset on Team Katusha Canyon road bike\" class=\"wp-image-875441\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Quarq power meters previously used chainring bolts and I don&#8217;t remember many complaints. &#8211; Colin Levitch \/ Immediate Media<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>It\u2019s frustrating to see SRAM highlighting the ability to change chainrings on the new Red XPLR AXS power meter as an exciting new feature, given it was SRAM that took away that ability in the first place.<\/p><p>It\u2019s not as if Quarq power meters have always had this limitation. Prior to the launch of SRAM\u2019s first AXS groupset (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-road\/sram-12-speed-red-etap-axs-hrd-review\">SRAM Red eTap AXS<\/a>), the brand\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/training\/power-meters\/sram-red-quarq-dzero-review\">Red Quarq DZero power meter<\/a> featured a five-bolt 110 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/advice\/workshop\/how-to-measure-bcd\">BCD<\/a> pattern with \u2013 you guessed it \u2013 interchangeable chainrings.<\/p><p>Thread Mount debuted on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-mountain\/sram-xx-t-type-eagle-transmission-powermeter-axs-review\">SRAM\u2019s T-Type Eagle Transmission groupset<\/a>, where you might think it was introduced due to the space limitations enforced by the smaller chainrings <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/advice\/buyers-guides\/best-mountain-bike\">mountain bikes<\/a> typically use (a smaller chainring necessitates a smaller BCD, which leaves less room for electronics in a power meter spider).<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/08\/2023-Scott-Scale-RC-SL-hardtail-cross-country-mountain-bike-16-391fcb0-edited-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"2023 Scott Scale RC SL hardtail cross country mountain bike\" class=\"wp-image-875467\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Tiny mountain bike chainrings are a tight squeeze on a power meter spider, but they do fit.<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>That wasn\u2019t the case, though. The smallest chainring size available for the XX SL Eagle AXS Transmission power meter \u2013 32t \u2013 is the same size as was available for SRAM\u2019s previous <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-mountain\/sram-xx1-eagle-axs-review\">XX1 Eagle<\/a> power meter, which had a four-bolt 104 BCD with interchangeable chainrings.<\/p><p>Instead, SRAM says Thread Mount simply enabled it to \u201creduce weight without compromising reliability\u201d. As already discussed, though, the weight savings are so negligible it isn\u2019t worth it.<\/p><p>Just as standard <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/features\/opinion\/bottle-cages-are-perfect\">bottle cages are perfect as they are<\/a>, so is the practice of using standard fasteners to attach consumable parts such as chainrings.<\/p><p>Thread Mount is a slicker-looking design compared to exposed chainring bolts, which is important for high-end products. But hiding the chainring bolts, as Shimano does on its HollowGlide chainrings, achieves a similar effect without any loss of functionality.<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1478\" height=\"985\" src=\"https:\/\/c02.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/39\/2024\/08\/SRAM-AXS-Power-Meter.jpg\" alt=\"SRAM AXS Power Meter\" class=\"wp-image-875446\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Thread Mount looks great, but hiding the chainring bolts achieves practically the same effect and doesn&#8217;t impact functionality. &#8211; SRAM<\/figcaption><\/figure><p>It\u2019s also clear SRAM knows how to do this.<\/p><p>Its <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/reviews\/components\/groupsets\/groupset-road\/sram-force-etap-axs-review\">previous-generation Force eTap AXS<\/a> power meter (the PM-FRC-D1) featured hidden chainring bolts, and its AXS Power Meter Spider (the PM-AXS-SPDR-D1) almost ticks every box, except for the fact it uses a non-standard four-bolt 107 BCD, which significantly reduces its chainring compatibility.<\/p><p>I\u2019m all for innovations that make our lives or rides better \u2013 heck, I even believe <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bikeradar.com\/features\/opinion\/press-fit-bottom-brackets-are-better\">press-fit bottom brackets are better than threaded ones<\/a>. But if an \u2018upgrade\u2019 or new feature doesn\u2019t offer any tangible benefits then it\u2019s fair to ask what the point of it is, and what was wrong with the old way of doing things.<\/p> <\/body><\/html>\n<hr class=\"no-tts wp-block-separator\"\/>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Not everything on bikes is ripe for innovation <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":24,"featured_media":67696,"template":"","categories":[1,36],"acf":{"readingTimeMinutes":"7"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts.jpg",1800,1200,false],"thumbnail":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts-150x150.jpg",150,150,true],"medium":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts-300x200.jpg",300,200,true],"medium_large":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts-768x512.jpg",768,512,true],"large":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts-1024x683.jpg",800,534,true],"1536x1536":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts-1536x1024.jpg",1536,1024,true],"2048x2048":["https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/uploads\/sites\/43\/2024\/08\/simon-says-sram-thread-mount-is-a-step-forward-but-what-was-wrong-with-chainring-bolts.jpg",1800,1200,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"importmanagerhub@sprylab.com","author_link":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/author\/importmanagerhubsprylab-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Not everything on bikes is ripe for innovation","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/rss_feed\/67695"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/rss_feed"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/rss_feed"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/24"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/67696"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=67695"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/c01.purpledshub.com\/cyclingplus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=67695"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}