We\u2019re here to talk about Segel\u2019s new Apple TV+<\/a> show Shrinking, and this initial interaction sets the tone for an inquisitive, funny and frank discussion about a series with far more on its mind than most 30-minute sitcoms.<\/p>\n I decide it\u2019s best to start from the top. How did the project first come together?<\/p>\n \u201cI was very lucky,\u201d he says. \u201c[Co-creator] Bill Lawrence reached out to me a couple of years ago and said that he wanted to try and find a show together. And after going through a couple of options he and Brett [Goldstein, co-creator] pitched me this show, and it felt like it was exactly my wheelhouse.\u201d<\/p>\n That wheelhouse? \u201cTrying to find humour through somebody really, really struggling.\u201d<\/p>\n Segel explains: \u201cIt\u2019s kind of the only version of comedy that I really respond to, or at least think that I\u2019d be good at. There\u2019s this other school of comedy when you\u2019re a really distinct character like Austin Powers or Ace Ventura, you know what I mean? But I don\u2019t think that\u2019s really my strength.<\/p>\n \u201cI think the type of humour \u2013 which I guess I would call surrogate comedy, where I represent you going through some really hard thing \u2013 that to me has always been the most interesting.\u201d<\/p>\n Segel cites \u201c\u201980s and James Brooks movies\u201d as his \u201cseminal influences\u201d, particularly referencing 1983\u2019s Terms of Endearment and 1987\u2019s Broadcast News.<\/p>\n \u201cBroadcast News, for example \u2013 one of those characters should end up being bad in a lesser movie,\u201d he says. \u201cBut none of them are, they\u2019re all just complicated and all doing their best and isn\u2019t that what life is like? There\u2019s no clear heroes, there\u2019s no clear villains, it\u2019s just sloppy and funny.\u201d<\/p>\n So how does that translate to Segel\u2019s new show Shrinking? Well, there are certainly no villains here. Instead, it follows Jimmy, a therapist who is grieving the death of his wife Tia, the mother to his daughter Alice.<\/p>\n As he becomes hopeless and self-destructive, its starts to infect his work life, where he takes the decision to start telling his patients what he really thinks \u2013 with ramifications for all involved. It may seem like a somewhat complex set-up but the series has a surprisingly simply message.<\/p>\n \u201cYou\u2019re watching somebody scramble to dig themselves out of a hole that has no lights and no footholds and no clear path, and slowly realising that there\u2019s a bunch of us all in this hole together trying to pull ourselves out,\u201d Segel explains. \u201cAnd it\u2019ll be teamwork and it\u2019ll be love and compassion that gets us all out of there together.\u201d<\/p>\n The series picks up with Jimmy some time after his wife\u2019s passing. We don\u2019t meet him as an optimistic, professionally minded therapist and watch him spiral, but instead witness the opposite, seeing him start to regain some semblance of normalcy in his life and his personal relationships.<\/p>\n I ask whether the writing team discussed Jimmy\u2019s previous life much \u2013 what his attitude was, how he would have behaved in different scenarios, what he was like with his patients?<\/p>\n Segel says: \u201cYeah, because we talked a lot about what he was trying to get back to. But at the same time, you\u2019re forever changed by losing a spouse. We will, as the season goes on, have some flashbacks, and you will find out some backstory to these characters and what they were like before she passed on.\u201d<\/p>\n He continues: \u201cBut I do think that the show is to some extent about new beginnings \u2013 that when you reach a rock bottom you\u2019re kind of forced to rebuild from scratch. It\u2019s about this guy rebuilding a new surrogate family that involves his daughter and involves the people who were there before, but it\u2019s going to have to be its own new thing.\u201d<\/p>\n We find out early in the series that Jimmy has been neglecting his daughter Alice since her mother\u2019s death, and is struggling to connect with her, or at times even talk to her.<\/p>\n Segel says this is because Alice is \u201ca constant reminder\u201d to Jimmy \u201cthat he has lost his family unit\u201d, but also that because he knows he is in such \u201cdisarray\u201d, it means there is \u201csome shame in the idea of parenting. Who am I to tell you what to do when I am drinking and using drugs and all these other things that we find out Jimmy is doing?\u201d<\/p>\n Alice is played by Lukita Maxwell, who Segel says is \u201cthe best\u201d. \u201cI\u2019m like in awe of this young woman\u2019s acting,\u201d he says. \u201cI learned a lot working with Lukita, she\u2019s brilliant and smart and just really f**king intrepid.\u201d<\/p>\n However, this does hit upon a somewhat surreal aspect of the series for the actor, who first came to prominence in Paul Feig and Judd Apatow\u2019s 1999 high school series Freaks and Geeks.<\/p>\n He says: \u201cIt\u2019s weird, man. I\u2019ve arrived at an age\u2026 I feel like your age (20s), but I\u2019m now the age where I have a full-grown daughter in a TV show.<\/p>\n \u201cI remember feeling like I was a representative of a generation and now I feel like the people who I look at and think are my peers call me Sir, or Mr Segel. It\u2019s really, really weird.\u201d<\/p>\n We move on to the therapy of it all. Plenty of shows and films have tackled therapy as a subject matter before \u2013 it\u2019s an easy gateway to explore characters\u2019 emotional vulnerabilities and understand their own view of themselves.<\/p>\n Here, it\u2019s used slightly differently. \u201cI think this show in particular is wish fulfilment that people just want to be told what to do,\u201d Segel explains. \u201cYou know, you have these problems that are circling and circling and circling in your brain and you\u2019re just finally like\u2026 God, what a dream it would be to tell someone your problem and they say, \u2018Oh, that\u2019s easy, just do this\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n Is it necessarily such a bad idea? Shrinking certainly doesn\u2019t offer it up as an easy answer, but nor does it appear to completely decry it as an unworkable model.<\/p>\n Segel says: \u201cI think that Jimmy is stuck in this cycle of therapy where the goal is actually secretly not for you to get better. It\u2019s more like it\u2019s viewed as a safe space for you to talk. And finally, Jimmy realises that everyone, including himself is stuck in this holding pattern and what if we shake things up and actually try to move forward?\u201d<\/p>\n I ask about the fundamental dichotomy in the series, that Jimmy is distinctly aware of damaging patterns of behaviour in other people, yet continues to act in ways which are destructive to himself and those around him.<\/p>\n Segel isn\u2019t too sure this is a wilful decision on Jimmy\u2019s part, and opines that \u201cthe person we can see the least is ourselves\u201d.<\/p>\n He continues: \u201cIt\u2019s who we have the least clarity on. And so that\u2019s part of where Harrison comes in. Harrison serves as the biggest mirror for Jimmy about his own behaviour, because Harrison is playing sort of my mentor and therapist himself.\u201d<\/p>\n Ah, Harrison. How have we gotten to this point without mentioning that Harrison \u2018Indiana Jones<\/a>\u2018, \u2018Han Solo<\/a>\u2018 Ford is in this show, playing a pivotal supporting role as Paul, Jimmy\u2019s fellow therapist and boss.<\/p>\n Segel notes that while Ford\u2019s character starts out as \u201cwhat you would expect, which is just the mentor character, the old wise sage to my kind of young, intrepid hero\u201d, we slowly find out more about him.<\/p>\n Paul is dealing with the early stages of Parkinson\u2019s disease, a storyline reflective of co-creator Brett Goldstein\u2019s father, who has been diagnosed with the degenerative disorder.<\/p>\n Paul also has his own estranged daughter, and Segel says this season of the show is about Paul \u201creckoning with his declining health and trying to reconcile with his daughter, while at the same time watching me potentially destroy his therapy practice\u201d.<\/p>\n So what does Segel make of starring alongside such a legend of the big screen? \u201cIt\u2019s crazy, man, I still can\u2019t believe it\u2019s happening,\u201d he says. \u201cWe kind of offered it to him, like at the beginning of a process usually you take one big stab knowing that it\u2019s going to be a no, just so you can say you tried it.<\/p>\n \u201cAnd you could have this week where you say, \u2018Hey, we\u2019re out to Harrison Ford\u2019 and everyone gets excited. But it\u2019s largely a performative offer. And he said yes. And we\u2019re all like, \u2018Oh\u2026 I guess Harrison Ford\u2019s in this now\u2019. It\u2019s still crazy to me.\u201d<\/p>\n As a fellow actor, Segel has nothing but positive words for the star\u2019s work ethic. He admits that he was \u201cprepared to be in awe and be deferential\u201d to him on set, but says that Ford really \u201ccame there to learn\u201d.<\/p>\n He explains: \u201cHe was like, \u2018I haven\u2019t done comedy like this before, I want you guys to help me\u2019. And then he comes out like a super confident comedic pro. So we lucked out.\u201d<\/p>\n Shrinking started filming in April 2022, and for Segel\u2019s part, it was an \u201cexciting\u201d shoot.<\/p>\n He says: \u201cI think that comedy is a really particular and exciting set because\u2026 well, this is my approach to comedy, but you\u2019ve got an amazing script, amazing writing, amazing jokes, and I love a great written joke. To me also though, what\u2019s interesting about life is the in between \u2013 this humour that you\u2019re finding about just existing.<\/p>\n \u201cAnd so you arrive to set each day with this crackling sense of mischievous excitement, like, \u2018Ooo, what are we going to find in there today when they say action?\u2019 You have to be really alive for it to feel alive.\u201d<\/p>\n The season is made up of 10 episodes, telling one clear story \u2013 it doesn\u2019t have a particularly episodic structure as seen in Segel\u2019s How I Met Your Mother<\/a> or even Lawrence\u2019s Ted Lasso<\/a>, both of which have a central long-running narrative through individual, one-off stories.<\/p>\n Segel says this season has been designed to be watched as \u201cone whole story\u201d, following what he calls the \u201cnew model of television\u201d. However, he stops himself from saying the phrase TV writers and fans dread.<\/p>\n \u201cYou really do have to approach it\u2026 they always say \u2018like a movie\u2019, but just like a story. There needs to be a beginning and an end and this is the arc through.\u201d<\/p>\n To Segel, who clearly has a keen interest in the craft of storytelling, this is representative of a larger point about narrative structure.<\/p>\n \u201cI always think that\u2019s the most interesting thing about writing,\u201d he says. \u201cIt\u2019s why there\u2019s people with half-finished screenplays in coffee shops all throughout the world.<\/p>\n \u201cBecause you know New York and you know London, and you\u2019re gonna get from one to the other and in the middle is just the Atlantic. How are you going to get there? 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